Transcript
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Welcome to the heart of show business.
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I am your host, alexia Melocchi.
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I believe in great storytelling and that every successful artist has a deep desire to express something from the heart to create a ripple effect in our society.
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Emotion and entertainment are closely tied together.
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Emotion and entertainment are closely tied together.
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My guests and I want to give you insider access to how the film, television and music industry works.
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We will cover dreams come true, the road less traveled journey beginnings and a lot of insight and inspiration in between.
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I am a successful film and television entrepreneur who came to America as a teenager to pursue my show business dreams.
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Are you ready for some unfiltered real talk with entertainment visionaries from all over the world?
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Then let's roll.
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Sound and action.
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Welcome to the heart of show business.
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I have such an amazing guest with me who is also being featured in the magazine, the Eden Magazine, because there is a whole episode dedicated to him in this amazing Nat Geo series called Photographer, and I just wanted to introduce you here to Dan Winters.
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Let me tell you first that, as we know, in show business it's called the moving image, right, so it all starts with the image.
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So what a perfect moment for me to interview here the master of images.
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Dan Winters is an award-winning photographer.
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He has won over 100 awards.
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He has been hailed and given an award as an icon of photography by Kodak.
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He's famous for having photographed the NASA holograms.
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Wonderful marriage with his wife, catherine, who's also his manager and his sidekick I like to call.
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And in this incredible episode that I just watched, we follow a little bit about Dan's process, of how he chooses what he wants to photograph, as well as how he grapples with the dynamics of his own family while choosing this type of career, which must be very intense.
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Even though it doesn't look like it, I'm sure it is.
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So, dan, welcome to my show.
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Thank you, thanks for having me.
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It's so wonderful to have you.
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First of all, one of the things that I was really fascinated about about is that you love taking pictures and shooting objects, and I have seen that even in the photos that you've done with celebrities and you photograph quite a few you always try to blend in the object matter, the object factor.
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Could you hold on one second?
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I'm sorry, sorry, there is hold on one second, so anyway, we are redoing this question.
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You love to shoot things instead of people, and whenever you're shooting people including many hollywood celebrities that you have immortalized you have always added the object element to the photography.
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Why do you do that?
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Well, I think it kind of depends on the situation, and if the object is going to help tell the story, then I'll work that into the picture.
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Oftentimes we'll build sets that represent environments so that we put the person into a world that we create, rather than just photograph them against a neutral background, which I also do.
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So it kind of depends.
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I do like objects, I do like photographing objects.
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I mean, ultimately, as photographers, we are really dependent on something or someone to point our camera at, like, we're not like painters.
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We can't just take a blank canvas and create a painting, right, we need something that reflects light to point our camera at in order to like realize our craft.
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So, um, but as far as like objects go, you know, I mean I can think of some portraits that I've done that rely on propping to help to tell the story.
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I did a portrait of benedict cumberbatch uh, that comes to mind.
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Um, for the film, uh, the imitation game, and the idea was to like create the assignment from the magazine it's for time magazine was to create uh kind of a world that felt like the world alan turing would live in, and uh, so we kind of created that world and then we shot stuff, just neutral background as well of him.
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So, um, but yeah, I mean you.
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Ultimately it comes from a need to have something to document.
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Yeah.
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So I see that you obviously or probably I'm getting obviously my own point of view you're trying to blend the symbolism of the object together with the human factor, and what I've noticed in your episode on the nat geo is that obviously you know, the two biggest uh highlights of objects is obviously shipyards, which is tied to your own childhood uh one that's one of them and then also your fascination with uh, space and uh, because when you grow up, you grew up seeing Life magazine and obviously having the incredible honor of shooting anything that has to do with NASA.
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Do you pick the things that you want to choose, that you want to shoot in the moment, say that, or when there is an assignment, or do you build a story behind it before you go and shoot a certain angle or shoot us under a certain light, whatever the subject is?
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well, um, if I'm working on a story, usually what I do is plan as much as I can, because, you know, these trips are expensive.
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So if I'm going to go to Kennedy to cover a launch, maybe I'll try to shoot a few other things that are a part of the story while I'm down there.
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But typically if it's a multi-image story that I'm working on, planning is a huge part of it.
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You know, planning, uh sort of planning, uh getting access, uh, you know, um, nasa has only a limit.
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They have a limited amount of people that can handle press requests, so usually a setup shoots far in advance.
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Uh, at kennedy, uh, there are fewer people johnson space center here in houston, they have, uh, a really good staff of people that I that I kind of communicate with regularly that keep me, uh notified as to what's going on so I can make plans to come down there.
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So that would be for like a space type scenario or, you know, like a aerospace scenario, and then for like a single image or a multi-image, like portrait assignment.
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You know, typically what I'll do is get the assignment.
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There's a conversation about whether or not it's a concept or whether it's more just about the person.
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It's a concept or whether it's more just about the person.
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Oftentimes, even if it's just a portrait about the person or a story that just doesn't require context, I'll still make a little environment to shoot in like a set, so that we can shoot in a place rather than, you know, just in a limbo background which I have no problem with limbo backgrounds, I've shot in lots of them but I kind of like the idea of creating something that feels like a world that that person's in and a world that we maybe don't know, in, a world Maybe we want, we want to know more about as viewers.
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You know, um, I think that that's a.
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It's a kind of interesting way to frame, uh, to frame, pun intended, but I think, uh, I think creating a place that causes intrigue, uh, is kind of a fun, uh, a fun place to.
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To start, yeah, yeah, no, totally.
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And I have to say, speaking of immortalizing people, what really really moved me was the moment where you shared with your son the pictures that you had taken of him and the emotion that it evoked in him and the conversation that you had about him where you said, basically, that was your way of showing love.
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Where you said, basically, that was your way of showing love, and though he felt that maybe you were not as present as he wanted you to be because of, you know, the profession that you chose, all the pictures that you took of him were telling a story of how he was growing up.
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Was there a particular reason why you chose primarily black and white for those photos versus, say, color?
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I've always had an affinity for black and white for those photos versus, say, color, um, I've always had an affinity for black and white.
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Uh, it goes back to the earliest days of photography for me, uh, the first exposure I had to uh to the craft of photography was, uh, the darkroom when I was nine years old.
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A friend of mine's dad was a amateur photographer and he had a dark room at his house and I remember he, me and my friend went in there and watched him uh work up a print and that was just an amazing moment for me and, uh, I've always loved working in the dark room.
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You know, there's a magic to it, um, there's a magic to sort of like willing the thing into existence, you know, through chemistry and light.
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And I just really love shooting black and white.
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It's funny, it never, it never even occurred to me to shoot it in anything other than black and white, like ever.
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I think black and white does a kind of a wonderful, it does a wonderful thing.
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It, it takes, it takes the scene completely uh away from reality.
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You know, it's like it's, it's uh, it's uh, it just becomes about tone and about value and, um, color's such a strong force, uh, for us that I think it can be distracting if you want to get to the essence of what the picture is about, and so, yeah, black and white seemed to be the obvious choice.
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That is a wonderful way of thinking about it.
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I've always had a fascination for black and white myself, because it makes it a lot harder to tell a story for Black and White myself, because it makes it a lot harder to tell a story I feel.
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So you tend to become way more selective rather than just shooting randomly.
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When you're dealing with color, what I find myself, even with my silly iPhone, when I'm taking photos, I'm just like snapping away, seeing.
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You know, hopefully something will come out good.
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Which brings me to, of course, the changing of technology today.
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And, um, everybody's a photographer, everybody.
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Now, with an iphone, they can do whatever they want.
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They have filters, they can do, they can create, they can with ai, they can take out things.
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How how will a photographer as a profession last in today's landscape when photography has become so accessible and so easy for most?
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Well, I think what you're talking about is something that came down a while ago, which was the technical barrier.
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So for many years there was a technical barrier in photography, and that is you had to have a level of knowledge and expertise from a technical standpoint to make an image right.
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You had to know about sensitometry, you had to know about chemistry, you had to know about optics all these things that you used in order to like, wrestle that image into being.
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And with the technology that exists now the digital technology it certainly made it easier to capture an image.
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But at the end of the day, that's not what photography is about.
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Right, photography is not about capturing the image.
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Photography is about making a compelling, beautifully crafted photograph, which none of the technology gives you that.
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And so the artistry of technology, the sensibility of the artist, the voice of the artist, that doesn't come for free.
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Everybody can make a picture that's in focus and that's properly exposed.
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That's what you get with the technology.
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You don't get the vision of a photographer with the technology.
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That has to be earned.
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I love what you said because I think it's very much a parallel with what's happening in our industry.
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Right, everybody thinks that they can be a filmmaker, they can just have an iPhone and make a movie.
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However, I don't think you can tell a story just by pointing out your phone and having a bunch of people act or say lines.
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You know there is a reason why there are great directors like the Christopher Nolan's of the world that really Scott and you know Scorsese.
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They have very, very specific voice and they have a lot of artistry behind them versus just shooting.
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So I love what you said.
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That's a great way of showing the difference between a true photographer and a photographer who just says great, I have a great iPhone, lots of apps, lots of filters that I can play with and then I'm going to go and create something.
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Which brings me also to.
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Obviously, you've been very busy throughout your career.
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You traveled a lot.
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Your wife has been your rock.
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It's been very moving to witness her testimony of you and her marriage to you and her support of you in your efforts, but also in standing by you as you were navigating the world, of being bipolar and all of that and also, you know, being the link between you and your son.
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What made you have a choice at some point which shows during the end of the show where you are realizing that life life real life, not the one that you take pictures of and family is actually what you choose to focus on today?
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Yeah, I mean, I felt like I was for many years, just, you know, dancing as fast as I could right to stay relevant, to stay busy, to support a family, to support a lifestyle, and I'm grateful for all of that.
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There are definitely some stones that were left unturned that I have regrets about, but at the end of the day, I think we, you know, we're all flawed beings and we all have struggles, and our struggles are, can be our triumphs if we uh look at them in the in the right way.
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So, um, um, yeah, the bipolar part of it was, uh, you know, at one point productive and at one point destructive.
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You know, like anybody that's dealt with bipolar disorder, that's a creative, knows that the level of immense creativity that can be associated with it is unbelievable, you know.
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But also, you know, on the downside of it is, you know, it can destroy you physically, it can destroy you emotionally, and so, you know, I'm grateful that we've been able to address that part of it.
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It's a lot nicer to live in a more stable realm, for sure.
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Um, so I think in in that way, um, you know, there's there's sort of a blessing that's come through that kind of realization.
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Um, yeah, yeah, I think yeah, I think it's.
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It's a choice of being in the present Right and and uh, I have not seen.
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I don't know if you've been taking pictures after the diagnosis it clearly shows that you have, and I do not see any change in the quality of your work or in the power of the images that you choose.
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What I like to say about your photography which for me it's everything is about an emotional connection.
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Everything is about an emotional connection and what I've seen in every picture that I scoured on the internet to try to find as much of your work as I could.
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What I loved about your pictures is that they open a doorway to my own imagination and my own interpretation of that picture, and to me, that's something incredibly powerful, because not many photographers are able to accomplish that.
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They may just do something for the aesthetics of it or to leave almost like a legacy of an image that is going to represent a moment in time, but to be able to choose that image and then also create an emotional connection with the person who's watching that image, where their imagination can run wild and start thinking I wonder why he chose that shot?
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Or like how does that resonate with me?
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That's quite an incredible, accomplished dance.
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So I mean, I bow down to you as far as your artistry and your talent and therefore my last question to you is what type of a legacy do you want to leave for future photographers?
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Well, that's a really good question because you know, this is a medium that's 150.
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So the first photograph was made in 1827.
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So it's 200-year-old, it's 190 years, uh, seven-year-old.
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Uh, discipline, uh, coming up on 200 years and, um, you know, billions of photographs have been made, most of them within the last 10 years, from, if you think about a 200 year old discipline, and most of the photographs that have been made in that discipline are in a very short piece of that time span.
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Um, so, legacy is definitely something that you know.
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I don't think I actively think about, like what my legacy is, but I do know this.
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I do know that I've gone and this speaks back to the question about like everybody has a phone, everybody's a photographer.
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I've heard this a million times and, uh, I'm so not threatened by it, because, you know, just because you have a typewriter doesn't mean you can write a novel.
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You know it's.
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It's just silly to think that.
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You know everybody's a photographer and filters and all that crap are not.
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You know, I've designed those filters for Apple, a bunch of those filters, you know, and they don't mean anything.
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You know they're like there's like artifice.
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You know it's just like artifice on top of something else.
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You know, know, it's just like artifice on top of something else.
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You know, um but um.
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As far as legacy goes, well, and I'll say this, that I've spent a large part of my career studying the history of photography, studying photographers, studying their motivations, their like triumphs and defeats, uh, understanding where they shot, when they shot, what tools they used.
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So, like having a really big sort of like database in my head, very comprehensive understanding of the history of photography and how photography has worked over time, how storytelling has changed the people that like began.
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You know, I think about john thompson in the 1800s documenting the streets of london, uh, stieglitz documenting the streets of new york.
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Like the progression of the storytelling aspect of photography.
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How people use photography for narrative, you know, totally, completely non-threatened by, like the guy with the iPhone, even though, having said that, I use my iPhone all the time.
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So it's a great tool but it doesn't make photos for you.
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Photographers make photos.
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You know, you've heard that thing of like, oh, you must have a good camera.
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I've heard that so many times.
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Like, wow, that's a cool photo, you must have a good camera.
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It's like the most insulting.
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It's like saying like, wow, you know, you must have a good piano, you must have a good guitar.
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That was incredible.
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You know, it's just like totally insulting, but I don't't, I'm not affected by it, it doesn't insult me really.
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I mean, I take it in stride.
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It's just because people are ignorant as to what actually it is, like what the discipline actually means, uh, but as far as legacy goes, understanding the whole career or the whole, um, the whole sort of arc of photography, and understanding who the significant players were and how they shifted things and why their work is important and why their work took photography in a different direction, helps me to sort of like determine where I fit.
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Like, where do I fit in photography?
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How has my work like earned a place in the history of photography?
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And I think I'm more concerned with that.
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I'm more concerned with, like, are there images that I've made that are, that are images that will, you know, find a place in the history of photography?
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And it's very difficult to do that.
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You know, like I said, it's a very saturated medium.
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Um, you know, uh, like I said, billions and billions, possibly more than billions, to be honest with you, trillions of images have been made over the last 200 years.
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So, as far as legacy goes.
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If we can have one or two images that speak to the progression of the medium in a relevant way, then I think I would be thrilled.
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Well, clearly, your photography was impactful enough to give you a whole episode on a Nat Geo show, so I think that's that's a testimony of the impact that you've made in culture, in society and, and hopefully, for many more generations to come.
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So, dan, it's been wonderful having this conversation with you.
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I hope that there will be an exhibit coming about your work.
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That's what I see.
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As far as I'm concerned, I would love to see an exhibit with some of your best work.
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I think a lot of people would show up for that too, to show you how valuable and meaningful your work has been today, and I look forward to that day.
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And thank you so much for coming on the show.
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For anybody who wants to follow Dan's work, watch this incredible series on Nat Geo and also do Google is your friend Speaking of technology.
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If you're lazy, just Google him and you'll see some incredible images over and out.
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Thank you for coming.
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This is the heart of show business.
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Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Heart of Show Business.
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